The Final Chapter: When Sinners Say Goodbye: Time, Aging, and our Glorious Hope

Posted by Pastor George

Saturday, April 26, 2008

Deb and I have been married for over 35 years and are still learning about how to have a Christ-centered, Gospel-preaching, God-glorifying, Bible-saturated marriage. I meet each week with a man who has been married nearly 30 years longer than I have and have learned that at 60 plus years or marriage, it still is a learning process. Dave Harvey says a maturing marriage is one that sees all the way to the finish line and beyond. We do not know what our future holds with health, wealth, or life but this chapter reminds us that we must be prepared for temporary trials up to loss. Are you prepared? Does your marriage exist and point others to the day we have feast at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb? What glory is set before us as sinners who said, “I do.”

1. If you missed our Faith Family Forum last summer where we had 3 couples who each have been married over 60 years, you missed a very rich experience. Do you know of an older couple whose marriage you admire? What do you admire about them? Why not buy them a cup of coffee or lunch and talk to them about their marriage? (We also have a DVD recording of our time at the Family Forum which you can check out for viewing – see Pastor George)

2. How did the story of Mark and Carol impact you? What can you learn from it for where your marriage is right now?

3. How do you need to view your marriage differently in light of reading this chapter?

4. How can you and your spouse prepare for the inevitability of death?

5. What did you learn from Jere’s story in the chapter?

6. In reviewing the entire book, which chapter do you need to go back and re-read? Why?

Check out Dave Harvey's short message on this chapter:

Chapter 9 – Concerning Sex: Straight to the Heart of What Keeps Us Apart

Posted by Pastor George

Saturday, April 19, 2008

There are different places where the health of a marriage may manifest itself. Apart from physical reasons, one of the most obvious places is the bedroom. There is a sparkle and an open demonstration of joy and unity that points a couple to their Creator when there is satisfaction sexually. Pastor Harvey gives a frank, open, and necessary talk about the adventure of sex in marriage. The marriage bedroom becomes a place where all the elements, joys, and meaning or marriage are expressed. Make sure you take time to do the “Let’s Talk” sections with your spouse so you can work to experience the final paragraph, “When Sinners Say WOW!”

1. Often times, our view of romance and sex has been shaped by different influences. What are some that have shaped your own view?

2. What are some of the ways men and women may differ in their view of sex? How can these impact physical intimacy in a marriage?

3. Pastor Harvey gives 3 biblical truths about sex in marriage:
*It is a protection against temptation
*It is an expression of service to our spouse
*It is meant to be a delight for both partners
Which of these truths would you like to see expressed better in your marriage?

4. What are some practical things you can do as a couple to strengthen sexual intimacy in your marriage?

Check out Pastor Dave Harvey speaking about this chapter in the following short video:

Chapter 8 – Stubborn Grace: Persistent Power to Run Together

Posted by Pastor George

Monday, April 14, 2008

Titus 2:11-14 states, “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good works.”

Sanctifying grace, the grace needed at and after conversion, is good news. It is constantly at work in us, gradually and incrementally, so that we can patiently but diligently run the race set out for us. Grace gives us the power to renounce the old man and take us where God wants us to be. Grace gives us the power to wait and to desire godly works. When we learn to communicate grace, we move beyond our mistakes to find the enjoyments God intends for marriage.

1. A significant part of the race we run in our sanctification is found in our marriage. Where are you aware in your marriage that you need "persistent grace to run the race?"

2. Where in your life are you aware God is "coaching" you toward godliness? How are you experiencing this in these 2 areas?

Making effort to renounce sin that entangles you

Making positive changes to obey God.

3. Where are you having to experience power to wait or having to show confidence that God is at work in an area of your life that does not seem to change?

4. Where are you prone to discouragement? Where is your spouse prone to discouragement?

5. How can you and your spouse encourage one another better?

Pastor Dave Harvey explains this chapter:

Chapter 7: The Surgeon, the Scalpel, and the Spouse in Sin. Spiritual Surgery for Sinners

Posted by Pastor George

Monday, April 7, 2008

For me to grow in holiness, God has graciously provided several instruments, the Holy Spirit, His Word, and other people. Pastor Harvey, using the narrative of David and Nathan, points out that in God’s relentless love for us, He pursues sinners and that He uses sinners to pursue sinners.

We just finished chapters about mercy and forgiveness, but what do we do when our spouse needs correction? Hebrews 3:12-13 speaks that we are called to correct, exhort and speak truth to the one we love.

This chapter brings outstanding, careful and necessary biblical instruction and help in how we can receive and give help and receive help. My wife, Deb, is God’s gift to me in many respects, but when I learned to grow in humility (still in process) and receive her insights and concerns, I realized one of the roles of a spouse in marriage is our sanctification. I do not like to be corrected, but it must be welcomed due to the deception of sin. I do not like to correct Deb either, but love demands it and to do it with wisdom, courage, and meekness

1. Pastor Harvey starts with the narrative of David and Nathan. Have you ever had to be a Nathan to someone? What were your feelings and thoughts as you approached the situation as you went through it and the results afterwards?

2. If you are to be a Nathan to your spouse, what are the character qualities necessary? What are the issues of character that would be unhelpful?

3. Pastor Harvey stated to be good spiritual surgeons, 3 spiritual qualities were necessary – wisdom, courage and meekness. What quality do you need the most? Which one second and which one third? Why did you place them in this order?

4. Review the questions on pages 124-136 and which ones do you need to remind yourself most often?

5. Biblical repentance is often misunderstood and minimized and/or disregarded. What did you learn about repentance?

6. How do you need to grow in meekness?

Listen to Pastor Harvey speak of this chapter:

Chapter 6 – Forgiveness, Full and Free. How to Unite What Sin has Separated

Posted by Pastor George

Sunday, March 30, 2008

Cancelling an enormous debt makes an enormous statement. As we move from mercy to forgiveness, we see they are intertwined yet distinctive. Mercy can be extended to anyone without even their knowledge but forgiveness involves a transaction.

Matthew 18:23-35 is a compelling parable that ought to send chills down your spine. In verse 35, Jesus steps out of the parable and makes this pronouncement: “So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from the heart.” Note that it is not just saying “I forgive you” but it involves so much more.

As a pastor I shout a big “AMEN” to Pastor Harvey that the subject of forgiveness is the most misunderstood and misapplied means of grace in marriage. Read this chapter to change this in your marriage.

Check Dave Harvey talking about the chapter at http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/Media/VideoGallery/SayIDo/vgallery1.html

1. What have you learned about forgiveness from the chapter that you did not know before?

2. Have you ever done something to someone else and not been forgiven for it? How does it affect your relationship with that person?

3. Considering the story of Jeremy and Cindy, though you may or may not have experienced the reality of adultery in your marriage, are there things they said or did that you do identify as similar points in your own marriage?

4. What are some of the 100 denari (small things) that you do against your spouse? Do you rationalize them? Do any of the following statements sound familiar in your vocabulary?
-Don’t be so sensitive
-You do it too
-I did not mean it
-This is just a bug misunderstanding
-Sorry, but I am having a bad day
-(your own favorite line)
When you use comments like this, why do they not make as much sense to your spouse as they do to you?

5. List 3 specific sins you know that God has forgiven you from through the atonement of your sins by Jesus Christ? “On the cross, Jesus brought forgiveness from God to me for …”

CHAPTER 5 – WHEN MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT

Posted by Pastor George

Saturday, March 22, 2008

The first time I read this chapter, I felt like my breath was taken away and though I may not often show emotion, I confess tears did come. Luke 6:27-36 jumped off the page and sent me into a tailspin. Mercy- “God’s mercy means His kindness, patience, and forgiveness toward us. In His compassionate willingness to suffer for and with sinners for their ultimate good.”

My book dropped from my hands unto the table when on page 81 it states, “Have you thought that passing along God’s mercy may be one of the reasons you’re married?” My response was “no!” Being unmerciful to Deb keeps me in a position of one-up on her. It helps me to be the “head” of the household and feeds my self-centeredness and pride. Luke 6 ruined my life.

Please do not read this chapter fast. Read it again if you have to for we have come to the understanding of the impact of my sin and my wife’s sin in the marriage – but mercy is the beginning of the solution and will make the rest of the book make sense.

Dave Harvey states, “Mercy is never strained because it is able to cover all it touches. It sweetens all it touches because it comes from heaven – from the very throne of the merciful Savior. Mercy is a blessing to those who receive and those who give.”

1. What have you learned about mercy from this chapter?

2. Is there a time when you experienced mercy from someone? What effect did it have on you?

3. Read Luke 6:27-36 again and then determine if there is a situation that you have faced or are facing that you are finding mercy difficult to give.

4. What are some ways that you can be expressing kindness in your marriage and home where you have not done so?

5. What questions on pages 91-92 did you find most helpful to ask yourself when you feel wronged?

6. Though Gordon and Emma’s story seems a bit extraordinary – there are similar types of stories at Faith Bible Church. What does their story say to you about your marriage?

There is not a video that goes with this chapter but you can download Dave Harvey preaching on the topic of mercy for no cost at:
http://www.sovereigngracestore.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=A1360-01-51

Also "When Sinners Say I Do" is available in audio book with Dave Harvey narrating.
You can get if from http://www.sovereigngracestore.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=B3225-00-21
Or from other major book purchasing companies such as Amazon.

Chapter 4 – Taking it out for a Spin. A Test Drive for your Doctrine

Posted by Pastor George

Saturday, March 15, 2008

The drive that Dave Harvey is referring to is going down the road of wisdom or making decisions as one rightly related to God. Wisdom in marriage is not to be found in “how to” books but by putting our beliefs in gear.

1. At the top of this webpage is “2 Ways to Live.” Take a few minutes to click on the icon and go through the presentation of the gospel and then consider why it is important that we not take any claims of our own righteousness in our relationship with Christ.

2. Why is being “self-suspicious” such a good thing?

3. Have you ever tried to “fix” your spouse? How did that go?

4. What are some things that you do that tend to raise the “oil temperature” in your spouse’s life?

5. Much is made these days about “unmet needs” which leads to unbiblical conclusions. How much of your life do you think of in terms of needs? How does the Bible address this issue of needs?

6. How would you respond to someone who would tell you they are having irreconcilable differences with their spouse based upon reading these first 75 pages?

Chapter 3: THE FOG OF WAR AND THE LAW OF SIN. Preparing for the inevitable

Posted by Pastor George

Sunday, March 9, 2008

I have two books downloaded on my home computer. One is “The Art of War” by Sun Tzu written in the 6th century B.C. and the other is the United States Marine Corps manual “Warfighting.” War is very complex and I have found strong parallels with these books and our experiences in the battlefield of relationships and against sin.

Dave Harvey points out that the cause of marriage battles is not our spouse, but the sin in our own heart. In other words, as the famous cartoon character Pogo once declared, “We have found the enemy and it is us.”

Just like the cardinal rule of war is that whatever strategy you enter a battle with, it will always have to be adjusted, so sin is crafty, alluring, and always betrays us. But by the cross of Christ, the battle has already been won.

Marriage is to meet on the battlefield where the war is won. There are no lost causes or hopeless conflicts. Every conflict has redemptive possibilities through the grace and power of our Sovereign God.

1. Sin is a battle we face within us. John Owen wrote, “Be killing sin or it will kill you.” Describe what the battle of sin within you is like.

2. Starting at the bottom of page 49, examples are given of how the battle within us can impact our marriage. Describe some similar experiences in your marriage.

3. Read James 4:1-3 about the cause of conflict. Think of a recent conflict you have had and how does it describe the truth of James 4?

4. The “law of sin” is a battle we all face. Even the Apostle Paul wrestled with it. Where might it be governing your life right now?

5. Why is sin so difficult to see at work when we are in conflict?

6. Are you convinced that you are the worst of sinners? How does Romans 8:1-4 address this?

Chapter 2: WAKING UP WITH THE WORST OF SINNERS – the News About Who We Really Are

Posted by Pastor George

Saturday, March 1, 2008

Dave Harvey lives in my world. I have been teaching and trying to help marriages and parenting the past 8 years and have been really been teaching myself. Almost every lesson on marriage has been an experience of taking the log out of my own eye before I present the material.

It is comforting Dave Harvey is there and very comforting the Apostle Paul as well, “The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of WHOM I AM THE WORST.” (1 Timothy 1:15) But of greater comfort is the next verse, “But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display His perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in Him for eternal life.” (1 Timothy 1:16)

So my sin is painfully ugly but I have been joyfully redeemed by grace through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. My ongoing need of the cross of Christ is because of my ongoing sin against God and as I realize more and more the mercy of God, I see God, myself, and my marriage much more clearly.

1. Think back to a recent conflict you had with your spouse where you displayed a sinful response. What were you thinking or feeling that led to such a response?

2. How do you often look at yourself as a sinner?
*I’m doing the best I can everyday
*I have good days and I have bad days
*I am not as bad as some others
*I am innocent until proven guilty
*I am the worst of sinners

3. How does your answer to number 2 affect your approach to God and to your marriage?

4. John Owen describes humility on page 44. Is this your understanding of it? How would you define humility?

5. What do your suppose would be some of the differences that can happen in your marriage if for the next 6 weeks you would make it your goal to live with your spouse as if you were the worst of sinners?

Check out Dave Harvey’s video introduction to chapters 2 through 4 at this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B27SBw-ej-w&feature=related

WHEN SINNERS SAY I DO, CHAPTER 1

Posted by Pastor George

Saturday, February 23, 2008

Chapter 1 sets the foundation for the book and our understanding of marriage. Our marriage must begin with a right understanding of God as is revealed in God's Word, the Bible. The heart of the Bible is the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the good news for sinners. Being a sinner means we need the Gospel every day and in our marriage. Take time after reading the chapter this week to discuss the following questions with your spouse.

1. Think back on your own wedding day. Why did you marry? How would you have answered an interruption to your wedding ceremony with the question, “How do you know this marriage is going to work?”

2. R.C. Sproul states, “No Christian can avoid theology. Every Christian is a theologian.” Think of some of the events of your last week. In the way you handled or processed these events, what did it say about your thoughts about God?

3. “The Gospel is the heart of the Bible” (P.24) If someone asked you what that means, how would you answer?

4. What does the statement “Marriage was not just invented by God, it belongs to God” mean?

5. Discuss with one another the basic and challenging claim of the book – all the problems of our marriage can be ultimately traced to one problem – the problem of sin.

6. What are some of the desires God has for your marriage? (P. 32)

Check the video by Dave Harvey about chapter 1 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ7uc2ZyNL8&feature=PlayList&p=D956992DFBA1F049&index=1

When Sinners Say I Do

Posted by Pastor George

Thursday, February 21, 2008

Even if it did not come across in my speech and actions - I am truly excited about what God will do with our reading of this book. Several testimonies are coming in and we haven't even started yet!

All the books (175) were picked up and more are on order. If you did not get a copy, you may have to catch up but they should be here anytime.

This Sunday we will introduce chapter 1, "What Really Matters in Marriage, Theologians at the Altar" with Dave Harvey explaining the chapter and questions and application will be posted on this site this weekend. Be sure to get to church a few minutes early to see the video of if you miss it first service, stick around to see it played right before second service (if we will be able to hear it!)

READING TOGETHER "WHEN SINNERS SAY I DO"

Posted by Pastor George

Friday, February 15, 2008

I am so excited for you if you are a husband or wife who attends Faith Bible Church. If you do not, you can follow along over the next 10 weeks on what will be a great journey.

This journey is through the book, “When Sinners Say I Do, Discovering the Power of the Gospel for Marriage.” I have read many and perhaps too many books on marriage. Some have been very useful. Most are filled with a worldly perspective that misses the biblical meaning of marriage. Then last year I picked up “When Sinners Say I Do” and it was not long into the book I cried out “FINALLY!” Pastor Dave Harvey gets it and expresses what marriage is all about and the hope we have to live a Christ-honoring, gospel-centered marriage.

Dave Harvey states that the biggest problem for me and my marriage is found in Galatians 5:17, “For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.” In other words, marriage is the union of two people who arrive toting the luggage of life. And that luggage always contains sin.

The point of “When Sinners Say I Do” is not a depressing thought. It recognizes that to get to the heart of marriage, we must deal with the heart of sin. Thomas Watson once said, “till sin be bitter, Christ will not be sweet.” This is the profound truth of the gospel. Until we understand the problem, we will not delight in the solution. Grace is truly amazing because of what we were saved from.

And now the special part. Due to the generosity of a couple who have found and continue to find the benefit of pursuing the gospel in their marriage, they have arranged that we can give a free copy of this book to each couple at Faith Bible Church who will commit to reading and discussing it among themselves over the next 10 weeks. I will introduce you to the book Sunday morning and we will give you your copy which the author Dave Harvey, in appreciation of what we are going to do, has personally signed.

We will play a short video each Sunday before the worship service of Dave introducing the chapter and then I will post on this site discussion questions and application challenges.

Join us for an adventure over the next 10 weeks that gives the potential for you and your marriage to be completely transformed by the power of God through the gospel of Jesus Christ.